[00:00] Brett Campbell: How many days a week have we got allocated to be able to homeschool? And you might be going, but Brett, don’t we have to homeschool every day?
[00:07] Ellen Brown: For grade 3 to 6, we’re talking about 30 minutes for each one of those. So about an hour and a half, and a child would be finished.
[00:14] Brett Campbell: Something that we found very helpful was stack the things that they enjoy most at the end of the day, or the end of the lessons.
[00:22] Ellen Brown: The fear of the mistakes or failure and what should I expect and what’s normal.
[00:27] Brett Campbell: Whether it was out of need and you’ve almost. Yeah, it’s it’s sort of a forced decision for you to have to homeschool or whether you’ve chosen to homeschool. Go easy on yourself. It’s it’s hard enough as it is.
[00:39] Narrator: Welcome to the Future Learners podcast, the home for parents and students thriving with homeschooling in Australia. Your hosts, Brett Campbell and Ellen Brown, are the co-founders of Euka Future Learning, Australia’s largest online K-12 homeschooling provider. Join them as they guide you from uncertainty to complete confidence. Let’s get into it.
[01:01] Brett Campbell: Hello and welcome to another episode of Future Learners Podcast. I am your host Brett Campbell, CEO and co-founder of Euka Future Learning. I’m joined by my amazing co-host and co-founder and Head of Education, so there’s a lot there. Ellen Brown, welcome to another show Ellen.
[01:19] Ellen Brown: Great. Excited to have a good chat today.
[01:22] Brett Campbell: Yes, we’re both excited about this one actually. And this this episode we’re going to get into the weeds of of a specific topic. And this is something that pops up quite a lot consistently. And there’s such a wide variety of ways to approach and tackle this. And it is the concept of what does a homeschooling day actually look like? How do I homeschool on a day to day basis? So if you’re sitting there and you’re still trying to figure out what works for you and how you can, you know, get things flowing more freely and sort of less pressure, less noise around the situation itself, then this podcast is absolutely for you. We have talked about it on past episodes. We’ve actually created an entire homeschooling course for parents as well.
[02:07] Brett Campbell: So if you haven’t signed up to that yet, make sure you go and do that. It’s the confidence guide, the Complete Guide to Confident Homeschooling. Sorry again. Yeah, another mouthful there. But that’s an entire course where myself and Ellen sat down and we cover everything A to Z of homeschooling. So make sure you go and register for that, because there’s lots of lots of things that we share. From the get go. So, Ellen, in regards to a starting point for today’s episode. We’ve both homeschooled children. Yeah. You’ve obviously been in the industry a lot longer than myself. So you come to it from, you know, you’ve you’ve got a lot of, what I would say experience across the board through multiple different ages of children.
[02:51] Brett Campbell: So, yeah, you’ve, you’ve homeschooled all from littlies all the way through to seniors and no longer at school. I can come to it with a, you know, a five year old, you know, example. And of course, what I’m looking forward to sharing today is because whether you’re homeschooling or whether you’re trying to plan a holiday, whether you’re trying to get a job or be better in your job or be more productive. The fundamentals that we’re going to share today are going to apply across the board, right. So I want you to think about this as we’re going through this. This isn’t this is you’re going to get a double whammy in this episode today, because not only are you going to be able to apply practical steps to homeschooling and more efficiently, you’re going to be able to take these frameworks and apply them to anywhere in your life. If you’re feeling that sort of that friction, and not the ability to move ahead. So we want to create momentum for you.
[03:49] Brett Campbell: That’s the goal of this episode today. And Ellen, I’m going to I’m going to kick off with you. Where do you think we should start in this topic?
[03:58] Ellen Brown: I think realistic expectations is the best place to start. I, I know, like you said, I’ve been homeschooling for many, many years. In fact, all my children have now graduated, finished year 12, and I’ve finished that part of the journey. So I have certainly gone all the way through. Sometimes when you have done something for a long time, you can forget what it feels like to start. And what’s happening for homeschoolers who are starting now is different to when I first started homeschooling. So I was thinking about this episode and thinking, how can I really get inside the the mind of of a person who’s starting to homeschool today now? And it brought me back to when I was farming and I had sheep for the first time, and I talked to the old farmers, I’d say, how did how do you do it?
[04:47] Ellen Brown: Like, oh, there’s many different ways to do it. You know, you’ll work out what works best for you. But the fear of the mistakes or failure and what should I expect? And what’s normal? Those feelings came flooding back to me and I thought, yeah, actually that is how it would feel as a parent who’s just starting homeschooling today, because the expectations on families today, as far as the departments concerned, are very different to when I first started homeschooling. So I feel like I’ve got your back, I know where you’re coming from, and I’m ready to talk about those expectations.
[05:23] Brett Campbell: Yeah. And and it’s a good point that because with an expectation pre expectation is knowing your type of personality and knowing the way in which you operate in general. So for someone who’s a happy go lucky and they’re like just take it as it is. That really freaks out the person who has to be super structured, they have to have every i dotted, t crossed, etc. And and if that is you, whatever works for you that allows you to get through and and create success. That’s what we really want to try and hone in on today. But what we want to really highlight and for you to be aware of is if you are the happy go lucky type of personality and that’s how you approach things, then that’s probably a good place for you to be starting from setting your expectations around that remit versus going, oh no, I have to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this way, that way. And then because that’s what creates that’s what creates friction in anything. That’s what creates friction in anything.
[06:22] Brett Campbell: And yeah, how I look at things from an expectation perspective, is I always want to go well and very similar if you’re setting goals for yourself, if you’ve got your health and fitness goals or anything in particular. Right, I like to go, well, what’s the what’s the penultimate outcome of of doing this? Like, let’s sit down and let’s go. What would the perfect scenario be here like. And you allow yourself to go oh would be this would be, you know, we’d wake up and just absolutely excited to get stuck into it. And, you know, we’re we’re learning so much. And so you got to set these parameters around because they’re going to act as your guidelines as well. Then of course you come all the way back to them.
[07:03] Brett Campbell: Which is where we’re going to start from is, you know, where are we before we even pick up a pen or a pencil or open up the laptop and go to your first lesson, where is the first step that we take?
[07:15] Ellen Brown: Yeah. So, I mean, the first step we’re going to take is what grade level is my student at? And that might sound so strange to think, well, I already know because they’ve just come out of school. Many of the times our students that are coming to Euka have come out of school and you might say, okay, well, they were in year four, so I’m getting grade four or I’m getting grade five because we’re moving up. That would make a lot of sense. But as people saw during Covid, when they actually sat with their child, the level of their learning might be a little bit different in some areas than others because we don’t learn things, things we’re more interested in. We usually can get flying through things we find difficult, or if they’ve had a difficult time at school and they’ve missed certain frameworks, say in maths, then you might find, oh, you know, we have started in grade five. We should be. We thought we were.
[08:07] Ellen Brown: But actually my child really needs some support here because they’re not want like I’m finding it really hard to get them enthusiastic about getting into maths. So starting with what grade level am I at for a core and and as you begin, then you can start thinking does some adjustment need be needed with the level? So I know we haven’t started the lessons at this point, but it’s just that thinking through, you know, when they were in school, were they struggling a little bit? Do we miss a lot of work, that kind of thing? What grade level is going to be right for my child? Because one of the things that you can do is you can make those changes as far as maths and English are concerned to ensure that the program is a good fit for your child.
[08:49] Brett Campbell: Yeah, and just to preface that, what Ellen is talking about, specifically from a Euka perspective, we have the ability. It’s called Personalised Learning Plan. We have the ability to be able to provide levels up or below the current grade in which your, your child is, is beginning their learning journey from. So a couple of points to that as well as don’t stress out as well if you don’t know, because you could be sitting there going, oh, I don’t know what their level is, that’s totally fine. Just start them off. And then what we can do is we can see how they progress from there. Like that’s the beauty of, you know, having the the flexibility. So if we come back, yeah. One thing I just want to touch on is so we’re you’re talking Ellen, we’re we’re having that pre thinking okay. We’re like where are they.
[09:38] Brett Campbell: Alongside that. What I want you to also consider is what subjects did your child really enjoy. What subjects do they really, dislike? Generally, you’ll find a theme in that. Most people generally dislike something because it’s not giving them something back, meaning it might be too hard. It might just be a total dud subject where people don’t enjoy it. They might not have, learnt the reason as to why they’re learning that. Right? This is that’s a really big thing as well. Like so many students, I mean, we hear this old, old adage of why are we still doing algebra? I think everyone, everyone I’ve ever met is like, yeah, still don’t know where I use algebra unless you’re a mathematician. But you got you want to understand the totality of the situation first, right?
[10:25] Brett Campbell: So we’ve got that. But I want to make sure that we don’t cross, we’ll get too far down the line before we look at, when I, when I talked about personality and how you approach things, it’s a very it’s a very good. So I’ll use another analogy of if you know that you’ve started a fitness program, Yeah, a hundred times. And you last about two weeks, right? The next time you go sit down and you look at planning, it’s like, look at the constraints that you probably put yourself around, right? You put around yourself. Right. And for many it was because you’re like, no, I’m at the gym five days a week, 5 a.m.. I’m eating, you know, 2200 calories a day. I’m being precise and it’s just unattainable. It’s just not even going to happen.
[11:09] Brett Campbell: So same approach here. When you’re looking at your home schooling, it’s like firstly look at and go, okay, my child is now either leaving the schooling system or they’re starting into the home schooling system and haven’t been exposed to any schooling at all. You’ve got to look at and go, well, what is your MVP? Okay. And I talk about this. This is the same way we produce products and how we’ve produced Euka and how we run Euka every single day. You know, as we look at these concepts of what is the minimum viable that needs to be completed right now, I’m not even talking about the lessons at the moment. Like how many hours a day you need to do lessons and so forth. We’ll get into that. But I’m talking about mapping what you have available to what the minimum viable outcome should be. Meaning, if you only have one hour a day to homeschool your child, then you need to put that down as that’s a consideration. I’ve got one hour a day.
[12:05] Brett Campbell: That’s how long we’ve got. Then you can marry up and go. Can I still do this? If that is the case. Right. And there’s, you know, we can get into into the nuts and bolts about that. But first of all, you need to go. What have we got available as a family? Who is going to be the person who is responsible for the progress of your child? Now, again, that’s going to be very dependent on age, right? The young’uns, you’re going to need to pay a lot more attention and be their coach and their mentor and get them, get them moving along. We have a lot of senior students who are very self-directed. They they get through. They do their work. They communicate with our team. You know, they do an amazing thing.
[12:48] Brett Campbell: So first thing is, what availability do you have to set your foundation from? Because this is the biggest roadblock that occurs, is when you have set expectations against something that you’ll never be able to marry up against. Okay. So setting that as as a primary sort of baseline. So you it’s it’s the I would much prefer you go very easy on yourself. And if you’re like, oh, we could probably get 2.5 hours if I do this or if I have to change that or I’ll be scraping in and then all of a sudden you’re setting your day up for failure already. Like go easy on yourself. Right. So in that example, it’s like you might go, oh, I’ve got to, I’ve got to go to this appointment or I’ve got to take my, my other child to swimming or this to that.
[13:32] Brett Campbell: And it’s like we could do work an hour and a half here, and then there’s a 30 minute drive and then there’s another half. Like it’s like, just relax, take the pressure off and set your expectations lower. And then what we can do is we’ve now got the ingredients of what we can work with. And then you can start to and we can start to build the framework around what does your day, your week, your month look like.
[13:58] Ellen Brown: One thing I will mention at this point is it’s a little bit like, and I know I’ve said this before, it’s a little bit like when you’re having a baby and.
[14:07] Brett Campbell: I don’t know what that’s like physically, Ellen, but I’d certainly…
[14:11] Ellen Brown: Every woman, you’ll say, I’m having a baby, and they’ll go, oh, let me tell you. And they will tell you their story and they will tell you, you should go here and you should do that. And when you’ve got a baby, you need to feed it here. You need to change it there. You need to do this. You need and, and and as a new mother and as a new homeschooler, all the advice that you get on from the from the experienced homeschoolers, you just need to keep putting that into context that works for their child. So what works for one person’s child isn’t yours. Now, I know that’s a bit like that old farmer saying, oh, there’s lots of different ways of doing it. What you do is, like you’ve said, Brett, work out what time you’ve got available, what works best for your child, and then we’re going to start running through different ways of approaching your home schooling. So yes, smile and nod and take on board all the advice and things like that, but don’t feel swept up in. And this often happens to homeschoolers, especially if you join homeschooling groups, which I fully recommend.
[15:10] Ellen Brown: But what you’ll find there’ll be some very assertive people say this is the only way you need to do this, and you’ll and you’ll rush off on that. And because I’ve been there, you know, and it’s like, oh, I’ll try this. Oh, you go, oh I’ll try this. And, and it’s and it’s never been true to yourself because you never sat down in the beginning and said, what do I want for my family? And what do I think my child needs in this journey? So, you know, smile and nod and take the gems where they come. But like you say, start by looking at your own family and realise that that might work for one, but not for another.
[15:43] Brett Campbell: Yeah, yeah. And this to to give some tactical questions is how many, how many days a week have we got allocated to be able to homeschool. And you might be going but Brett, don’t we have to homeschool every day? No, you actually don’t have to. Right. So you go how many days have you allocated? How many hours in the day? Total hours? I’m not saying exactly from this time to that time yet. I’m just saying your totality of learning. And then we need to map that with what we believe the minimum viable consideration is. And the consideration is going to change depending on your child and their learning ability and their ability to retain information and understand and and get context. Because the goal of homeschooling is not to just rush your child through lesson one all the way through to try and stay within a time frame and a timeline.
[16:34] Brett Campbell: That’s the furthest thing from what we’re trying to do here, right? We would much prefer you spend. And again, I’m just and as an example here, I’d much prefer you to spend four hours on one lesson so your child gets understanding and context and they’re like, oh, actually I enjoyed that now because I understand versus rush, rush, rush. And you’re doing little bits of everything and, and you just sort of ticking boxes to get by. The whole point of this is for your child to experience the learning that they deserve and that we know we know people love to learn. We know kids love to learn, right? A lot of times they just haven’t been exposed to the way of learning or the topic of learning of their choice. So our roles as the mentors, as the parents, is to keep keep an eye out on those things as well.
[17:22] Brett Campbell: It’s like you’re going to find like with my daughter, there are specific. She was going through an art phase where she just loved to draw. She would love to draw, and we used a lot of that as leverage in a lot of the exercises and the activities. And we’ll talk about this in more detail where we’re like, okay, we’re going to do a lot more drawing here then like let’s let’s highlight the areas of enjoyment so that you can learn the lesson within the lesson. So that’s a really big thing. So the totality of days, the totality of time. And Ellen, I think what would be good is if we can actually give a baseline of what we because I’ve said MVP, like what’s the minimum viable, amount that someone does need because there is like, yeah, we’re not sitting here going, you can just do 20 minutes a day homeschooling and you’ll be fine, because that’s not the case either. So let’s talk.
[18:12] Brett Campbell: Let’s set the baseline of what this minimum viable is. And then we can bolt on and build the framework around that for everyone.
[18:20] Ellen Brown: Yeah. Perfect. Yes. So I there was a couple of things that popped into my mind there. And I guess we’ll get to them as, as we do. The important thing, like you said, is about developing that love of learning. I would also say, you know, if you took your child to the grocery shop and you said, you know, you can go in any aisle and just eat as much as you like in that aisle. Chances are you’ll find them in the sweets department having a wonderful time, and they probably won’t necessarily hop off to the vegetable vegetable department. But you know, that part of a well-balanced diet means that they have a bit of a chance they might discover they actually love sweet potato, but they wouldn’t have discovered that had you not given them the opportunity.
[19:03] Ellen Brown: So when we talk about, you know, how does what does your child love to do? What what we’re really trying to say as well is there will be some subjects and topics that the kids might go, oh, you know what, I don’t like this or that, but that doesn’t mean it may mean that they didn’t like it when they’re at school or they didn’t like it the way it was presented before, or they’d like it better if they were drawing pictures of things that happened in ancient Egypt rather than, you know, creating something and and leveraging how they learn is going to be important. But, you know, starting by saying, well, let’s give them an opportunity to learn the full curriculum. Let’s give them the opportunity to learn all the subjects is what Euka has provided.
[19:46] Ellen Brown: How much time you spend in each will be something that you’ll work on as a family, but with the timing, with the younger ones, we have well, all the way through we say, let’s do one lesson of maths and English a day, five days a week, because those subjects have a lot of content, and having those as small as subjects that are every single day gives the brain time to take on board what they’ve learned and build on that each day, rather than saying, well, maths is on Monday and then next week. It’s been a whole week since they learnt that bit of information about maths, and you’ve got to revise that again. So you’ll see in the Euka program there’s maths and English already provided for every single day of the week now.
[20:27] Ellen Brown: Socialisation is also a vital part of learning, playing, having friends, having fun with peers, playing sport all those things are really important. I know as a homeschooler we never did homeschooling five days a week. We would have at least 1 or 2 days where we had social days or we had things on. So when I said that maths and English every day where we could, we would do it every day. Or we might say, we’ll move Friday’s lesson into Thursday, and on Thursday we’d do two lessons. Two so that we made sure that we were covering that across the week. So in the younger grades, maths and English every day now, those lessons in the young grades take about 20 minutes. So that helps you to understand. Well, there’s 40 minutes.
[21:09] Ellen Brown: And when I say younger grades foundation to grade two because that’s where they’re most most children, that’s their attention span about 20 minutes. And they’ve had enough unless they get totally involved in something they’re creating, and it may be an hour before they’re finished doing that. We don’t, we don’t, because there’s no bell at home, thank goodness. So we don’t have to say, I’m sorry, pack up that we’re on to the next thing that can be so upsetting for a child when they’re really engaged in something. Maths and English each day in the younger years. And one other subject. If you did that, you’ve covered the whole week. And remember one of those subjects is PE. Now we might have in our PE or this week we’re doing ball skills and we’re kicking the ball and we’re doing this and that where you’ve gone for a bike ride and you could say, well, that’s okay. We’re going to have that as our PE lesson for this week.
[22:02] Ellen Brown: We’re not going to do that. So the flexibility you’ll start to get confidence that Euka provides you with all these lessons. And there are opportunities for your learning. But sometimes you’ll say, oh, actually we’ve got a team sport on Thursdays that we’re going to do instead of the PE that is in the Euka program, Mark complete, done. So for the little ones, Foundation to grade two. We’d be saying maths and English each day and one other subject. So if you have a look at that, it’s about an hour. You would get that finished and that’s just going through each thing. Did you want to talk a bit about that? Because I know you’ve had some real experience in that foundation age group.
[22:41] Brett Campbell: Yeah. And I think that a couple of key things is some five year olds are happy to sit there for ten, 15, 20 minutes. Some have no desire to do that. So and you’ll be nodding your head right now, if your child is the child who doesn’t really want to sit there for too long. And that’s totally okay as well, right? And the younger years, that is where you as the parent, you know, Euka, we’ve created all the lessons. They’re they’re obviously your five year old child. Is. You’re not going to. I would hope you’re not, but depends on. Well, actually everyone to their own, to be fair. Is You would sit there with your child and most likely read the lessons to them. Right. You would sit there, you would explain.
[23:24] Brett Campbell: So for me personally, I would have I would always spend a little bit longer because of the way I like to obviously teach. And I want to help my daughter be like, I’ll see a word and I’ll go, do you know what that word is? So I’m probably the person that would, instead of doing a 20 minute lesson, it would take me an hour because I’m not about the, the, volume of work. I’m about the quality of work. Right. So, you know, quite often I would spend time in and that’s because and here’s, here’s something that I just want to highlight as well, because I know people could be going, oh, but that’s okay for you, Brett, because you really enjoy teaching and you really enjoy that, that component and I do. And that’s a that’s why I say my personality is I’ve been since my daughter was like one and a half. We would spend Most days sitting in the pool or in the spa pool, doing our alphabet and learning words. And yeah, I had her doing 50 S words, words that start with S, and she was doing like 50 words by the time she’s like three years old. And it’s like, but that’s because the that was the games that we played and we made it fun and and enjoyable. So these other things as well that you could be doing, like learning and teaching your child is not just on a homeschooling day per se.
[24:40] Brett Campbell: We’re always teaching, especially in the younger years. So, from that perspective is you’re going to spend a little bit more time with your child working through and, and you’ll be able to go, you know what, with the way our lessons are created. So we do have practice activities. So one thing that we’re really proud about is that we cover all modalities of learning in a sense of, if if your child is far more hands on practical than every lesson that we have, has some form of a practical activity. So you can go through the the information a little bit quicker and you go, okay, yeah we get let’s spend some time on this right now. In the younger years you might be doing numbers and you’re like, let’s go outside and we’re going to do a hopscotch. Right.
[25:25] Brett Campbell: And you’ve got chalk and you’re drawing a hopscotch out. We did that lesson and next minute we’re out there for an hour playing and the game expanded into something else. Then we’re kicking a soccer ball. It’s like, oh, okay, that’s totally fine, though. Like, give yourself that flexibility, right. The key elements are because not all lessons are created equal. And I think this is an important piece as well, is, yes, you’ve got an English and a maths every, every single day as a recommendation. Right. There was some days we did three English in a row because they didn’t take 20 minutes. We actually went through the lesson in ten minutes because we didn’t spend a lot of extra time on it. Right. So you have that flexibility.
[26:09] Brett Campbell: The real goal is at the end of the lesson when you ask the questions. And in the in the younger years, there’s like 3 to 5 questions about the lesson that if your child has zero context about any of the questions, then you probably just go back and and revise if they were even paying attention. Right. And you’ll quickly see what, they enjoy more and you’ll be able to, to spend that a little bit extra time there. But as a parent, that’s I personally. And again, I haven’t homeschooled the older years, but I could imagine and you tell me, Ellen, it’s actually more of a question for you. I imagine the early years are the harder years. Now, actually, I just thought that through.
[26:51] Ellen Brown: No.
[26:53] Brett Campbell: No. Okay. Fair enough.
[26:55] Ellen Brown: They require a bit more of your your actual physical time. Correct. That’s how I would say it, yes.
[27:01] Brett Campbell: Yeah. And they’re probably the most vital because if you’re setting your child up obviously to learn that’s, that’s, that’s their relationship with learning and growing and developing. So, yes. Yeah, that wasn’t really thought through.
[27:14] Ellen Brown: And obviously the context that the child has come to homeschooling from is is a factor. You can’t just jump into. Right. Monday morning we finished school Friday. Now it’s Monday and we’re going to start homeschool. And you’ve got to take into account that if your child has come out of the school system and they’ve had some difficulties, there’s there might be some time and you might start a little bit slower and you might say, let’s choose one thing this week or today, one thing out of this that we’re going to work on, rather than jump straight into having 3 or 4 lessons, you know, so you’ll work that one out as a parent.
[27:45] Brett Campbell: And you also need to take into account. And this is for parents who have other children as well. This is a big one. So, you know, we’ve also got a ten month or 11 month old, you know, and several months ago, as you know, babies can sleep or not sleep and almost live on live on whatever time clock they want to. And you might have sat down and go, you know what? From 9:00 today to ten, we’re going to do a homeschooling lesson. And then you’ve got a baby crying in the background. You’re like, oh no, it’s all over. What do I do? And you know, one thing for us, it was really, really helpful. And what it actually did as a by-product of it, right, as a by-product of, you know, my wife who would be sitting down doing a lesson and then the baby’s crying, she’s like, oh my goodness, I have to go and attend to baby.
[28:33] Brett Campbell: It taught my daughter the ability to be able to sit by herself and do specific activities. Now, what I will say is when we left the room to go and attend to to the baby is we would have a handful of things up our back pocket where we’re like, okay, there’s no way my daughter is going to continue on this specific lesson right now by herself. So we’ve got some backstop things that she could do. It’s like here, now I want you to practise your handwriting and you’re going to do the letter B’s. Okay? I want you to. Here’s you can dot them out and they can trace them wherever they’re at in that level. So always have these sort of backstop things that you know, that they would like to do. Because she enjoyed doing that at that stage.
[29:16] Brett Campbell: Or we’d say, hey, I want you to draw a draw a poster of a bee flying, landing on top of a flower. And can you do four flowers for me? So something like that, that you’re like, well, that’s got nothing to do with the lesson or that’s not what’s being asked from you right now. It doesn’t matter. It’s all learning, it’s all development, and it’s adding something that is going to allow your child to have a bit more stability whilst you’re out attending to other children or other things that are going on. Right. And it, it actually helps build the muscle of context shifting and then going, you know, working on one thing, coming back because you might come back and you’re like, okay, let’s get stuck in the lesson. No, I want to stay doing this.
[30:00] Brett Campbell: I appreciate and love that you enjoy doing that right now. But what we do need to do is we we’re going to come back here and in. Let’s just finish that. And then when we’ve done that, we can come back to that. What do you reckon? Boom. Yes. So now you might just say okay, let them carry on with it. Or you can bring them back into the lesson. There’s so many, so many extra I think, lessons and bonuses that you get from just going through the journey of trying to figure it out, because, let’s be honest, we’re all trying to figure it out, right?
[30:33] Ellen Brown: Yep. So we talked about foundation to grade two. Once we get, grade three to grade six, you’ll find that the lessons generally are organised to take about 30 minutes. So we’re allowing for the fact that their concentration abilities have improved in most cases. And as Brett mentioned, each lesson has a Learn section, which is where their information that they’ll start to, have the opportunity to take on board. And, that’s where you can have the read-aloud function, which is really helpful. So a student who learns better using the audio skills will be able to listen to that learn section being read. Then we have the practice activity. Now that’s an optional activity as you’ll as you’ll see when you get into that.
[31:16] Ellen Brown: We say it’s optional not because it’s not wonderful and great fun, but if you’re doing by the time you get to grade three, you’re still doing maths and English each day. And another one, you wouldn’t do three practice activities in a morning, because a lot of those really, they’re they’re organised to get your child engaged in something. And that can take quite some time. And it might be too exhausting to be doing all three. It might take you all day. So you’ll decide as you’re going through your lesson, you’ll do your practice activity and then the apply section. So for grade 3 to 6 we’re talking about 30 minutes for each one of those. So about an hour and a half. And a child would be finished their schooling in the day.
[32:00] Brett Campbell: And also just to that, to add some context, because I know that the the practice activities gets brought up quite a lot, and the way in which we built Euka is to be as flexible, but also as structured as it can be. Meaning if there is a practice activity for a specific lesson, and if it’s not one of the assignments or part of our work samples. And again we’ll talk about that. But if it’s not part of that, and it’s sort of what we would call a general lesson, then you have flexibility and freedom to adjust the the practice activity to make your own rules up with it, to totally swap it out for something else if you want to. Like, for example, you might have to do a poster of, of what do we give me an example on a grade, let’s say six Ellen or something.
[32:56] Brett Campbell: Grade five, grade six, maybe.
[32:57] Ellen Brown: Maybe they’re doing the gold rush or something.
[32:59] Brett Campbell: Yeah. So you’ve got a poster and you’re like, you know what? We did a poster yesterday. Or my kid no longer doesn’t want to do posters at this time. We’re going to do something else. We’re going to do a clay model or we’re going to we’re going to write a, we’re going to do a write up about it, or we’re going to write a draw, draw pictures, or we’re going to do whatever. There’s about 20 or so different options we have that you’ll start to get practice around, you know, and you might go, you know what? We’re in the diorama phase right now. Let’s let’s actually. And you’re like, well, there’s no way we could build this in 20 minutes or 30 minutes, so that’s fine. That’s maybe where in the week you go, you know what would be, one lesson that, and this is something that we always do, is go through the entire week ahead and look at all the lessons that you’re planning on getting done. Right.
[33:50] Brett Campbell: And we’ll come back in a moment to go. How do you structure that? But, plan on what you’re looking at, skim through it. It’ll take you maybe half an hour to skim through all the lessons, right yourself as the parent, and then you’re like, okay, yeah, we got this. Oh, I know we’ll really enjoy this activity. So we’re going to spend some time on that because, you know, my daughter loves Play-Doh. We’ve got lots of Play-Doh on Wednesday. When we do this lesson, we’re going to build the volcanoes and lakes and da-da-da. And we’re going to spend a good hour and a half, two hours there or whatever. We’re going to allow that time, right. And that just might mean then you shrink the practice activities or you don’t do the practice activities on other lessons.
[34:33] Brett Campbell: So that’s just and again, I know we keep coming back to there’s lots of flexibility. And it can also it can sometimes be dangerous when we say it in some senses because for those people are like, oh no, but don’t I have to do it? Do I have to do it? Do I not have to do it? So the answer effectively is no. You don’t have to do every practice activity however from a minimum viable Ellen. And this will come back to. So we’ve suggested a you know a maths and an English and a subject every, you know and another subject each day. What would your baseline, expectation be or minimum viable on the practice activities? I think this would be very useful.
[35:09] Ellen Brown: Yeah, it would depend what it is. So if it’s an English game, like you say, and you’ve got to get some chalk and write down letters and jump from one to the other and things like that, well that’s great, but if it was something that was creative, that was going to take that creative energy, one of those a day can be really helpful. You can really get engaged. And it did actually make me laugh when we were talking about year six and, gold mining, because I remember the practice activity that my child had to do was a poster. And I still remember he made up a rap song, and I still have it going. Every time I think digging for gold, it comes up in my mind. It wasn’t one of the practice activities that we had in the program, but it was an adaption that he made because he was really into, you know, making his own music at the time. So it just still makes me smile even when we talk as a family. Something about gold. It comes up, this song that he made up.
[36:04] Ellen Brown: So, you’ll learn as a as a family that, you know, doing something practical if it’s a game or something fun that that is, that’s a kind of a short thing that’s fun. But if it is something where you really want to invest time in it, then you might say, well, that is going to be the practice activity for the day. And here’s a tip for, parents of multiple children, just because your child, you’ve got one in year six or the grade six and one in grade two, and they’re not doing gold mining yet, but the person in grade six is actually creating a something really fun. Bring them along into that. Because one of the joys of homeschooling is that they can learn together. And multi age learning can be really helpful.
[36:44] Ellen Brown: So they may do their learn section of the lesson that they’re doing, and then come together as a family to do a practice activity. That is a wonderful way for everyone to learn and especially when it comes to things like visual arts or science experiments. I will normally say because I had three children in three different grades, I would look at it and go, okay, well, we’re definitely not doing three art activities. This is not going to happen. But I would say, let’s all look at the well, actually, I’ll get it. I was going to tell you that I would say, let’s all look at the art activity and decide which of the three. I wouldn’t do that because it was it wasn’t a democracy. Otherwise we would have three art activities.
[37:25] Ellen Brown: I would think to myself, this one, this will capture most of us together. So we’ll do this one, and we would do it as a family and it would be really enjoyable. So that’s the way.
[37:35] Brett Campbell: And to that for the people sitting there thinking, going, okay, but if my child does an activity that isn’t actually part of their program technically, do I still have to do all of the lessons in Euka? Right? Because that’s something that that pops up quite a lot. Right? And we’ve built this curriculum so it can stand alone by itself, where you don’t have to do anything extra if you don’t want to.
[37:58] Ellen Brown: Yes.
[37:58] Brett Campbell: Right. However,
[37:59] Ellen Brown: It’s a little bit like I was saying before about PE. If your child’s doing ballet once a week and that’s going to be your PE for the week, you can go into the Euka program. It’s really good to read through the learn section because there’s really good learning in that you’d skip the practice activity, you’ve already done that outside, and then you go to the apply section. So it’s not that they’re missing out on the learning. And if if all your kids are all jumping into a gold mining, making a scene together, they’ve still got their own learn sections that they’re doing, and they can skip whatever practice it is and then get to the apply section, which is just an opportunity to make sure they understood what they were learning and then move on.
[38:41] Brett Campbell: And another great thing that you could do with the Euka program is in the reflect section. At the end of every lesson, there’s the ability to answer a handful of a couple of questions. What we would do is we’d put a note in there going. We didn’t do this practice activity. We actually did hopscotch outside. Or we went and climbed trees or we did whatever. So there’s context and a record of what you’ve done as well, which is super important. I think just for context, when you look back and you’re like, oh, okay, this is sort of how it sort of worked itself out. Ellen, let’s touch on the secondary, component, because obviously we’re moving now into the, the older years.
[39:20] Ellen Brown: Yeah.
[39:20] Brett Campbell: Still very young, but. Yeah, the older years.
[39:23] Ellen Brown: So it can be a little bit of a jump when you get into grade seven and eight, because all of a sudden there’s new subjects there that weren’t there before. And I’ll explain that in the younger grades we have things like history, geography and and business, civics, all those kinds of things like government and things are all wrapped up together in those younger years. And once they get into high school, they’re separated out. So it’s not that there’s new subjects, it’s just that we’ve got more focus on some of those subjects, like business and geography and things like that. So when they get into grade seven, it’s like, oh, they’ve got a they’ve got more lessons. But really what it is is English and maths each day and two other subjects. So the time, like we’ve said before, keep in mind the time they spend on a subject can vary.
[40:12] Ellen Brown: So if they absolutely can’t stand something, don’t let it be a roadblock. Get them to just scrape, you know, go through that learn section, move to the apply section and move on because, you know, just because their child sitting in a classroom at school, in geography and looking out the window doesn’t mean they learnt it. So, you know, they’re still doing real well. If they can scan that and finish an apply section and move on, they’ve done really, really well. If it’s a subject they’re not keen on. But that’s what year seven and eight look like.
[40:45] Brett Campbell: Just just on that Ellen something as well to just as a as a check point for parents is so you do the practice activity. You can upload your practice activity, the outcome of your practice activity to the portal, right? If you’ve got Premium Reporting, which is a service that we do offer, which helps and assist with your government reporting at the end of the year when you submit all your work, to the department, you have the ability to be able to upload your work. So you might get outside and let’s say it’s practical activity. And I’ll just keep using hopscotch as the example. Right. You take a photo of your child, or you take a photo of the hopscotch that you’ve drawn outside, and then you upload it and it’s like, okay, cool.
[41:25] Brett Campbell: And it’s also a memory peg for you as well to be able to to look at that. Now, the reason for this tip is what if you start giving your children the ability to skip practice activities? Just be aware of, again the personality of your child. For example, me if I was. If you give me an inch, I’ll take a mile. Meaning if I know that there’s a loophole where I might not need to have to do every practice activity, and I can just get through my work quicker and be done and go done, I can go out and kick the football. Then I’ll probably try to exploit that to the best of my ability. So just be mindful that you’re. By skipping a practice activity, it doesn’t become a frequent thing where this week you’ve done none, right? Or this fortnight there’s there’s nothing there.
[42:07] Brett Campbell: And it’s like, well, you need to have it, you know, and again, we’ll talk about minimum viable is we’ll definitely recommend you do a couple of practice activities a week. Right. At least to as a, as a very, very, very baseline. But we would hope that you would get more enjoyment out of these practice activities as well, because the practice activity is not just homeschooling at home, right? When Ellen’s talking about the gold mine as an example in one of the lessons, it’s like, not that there’s a gold mine around every corner, but you might go, you know what we can actually get? There’s a local gold mine, or we’re going to go down here, we’re going to go to the history museum, and we’re just going to look up the gold rush.
[42:47] Brett Campbell: And and you’ve now turned it into something memorable as well. So this is where we talk about that flexibility of. You can follow Euka to the absolute T and you’ll be absolutely fine. But you also have such a room of movement and adjustment. And I’ll also put this out. There is if you’re still in a position where it’s like it’s just still too stressful to make the decisions on how flexible I can be, reach out to our support team. We’re always there to we’ve got lots of resources. We’ve got lots of ability to support and answer questions there to help you as well. So we just want to make sure that you’re very, very aware of that.
[43:23] Ellen Brown: Yes. So now we’re up to grade nine and ten. So as I said grade seven and eight maths and English and two other subjects each day. So we’re now talking about one and a half to two hours at maximum. And I say that’s really important. I don’t even like putting times on things because we’re all very different. But it just gives you a bit of an idea. But we get to grade nine and ten. We’re still looking at the about two hour mark, but instead of we have maths and English each day, but then we have one subject and then one elective. So if you’re moving into grade nine or grade ten, you’ll get a lot of information around electives. So I won’t run into all of that information now. But it’s just great to know that you have maths and English, one core subject and one elective each day to cover your program in grade nine and.
[44:16] Ellen Brown: ten.
[44:17] Brett Campbell: And with electives. That is a subject chosen by your child and yourself. So the hope there would be you’d be choosing something of interest, which they would start to get a lot more interested in. And you’ll probably find an inclination to leaning towards that subject a lot more, or wanting to do a lot more of the practical activities there. And that’s totally fine as well. Okay, so very, very important to remember there.
[44:42] Ellen Brown: And then we get on to the senior students. So as you probably may or may not know, I don’t know. We have a pathway where students are looking. They’ve got assessments and they’re looking at going off to university. And then we have another pathway where they’re doing grade 11 or 12 without having that feedback from the teachers in their assessments, so they have those two options, they’ve picked five subjects plus English. So they have English each day and then they have five other subjects. So one that they’ll do each day of the week. Now of course seniors are totally it’s totally up to them. So they may just spend Monday will be English and biology. They’re just going to do that and the next day might be English.
[45:25] Ellen Brown: And then they’re going to do maths, but it’s going to be up to them. And some of our senior students will do a little bit of a few subjects. So it’s very much about their own timetable, but we’ve designed it so that the subjects are blocks and most of our students will do one block, One subject each day in those senior years.
[45:45] Brett Campbell: And now let’s wrap up the years, so to speak, the grades with a an overview of the work samples.
[45:56] Ellen Brown: Oh, I’m glad you mentioned that because it made me think about that when you were saying, oh, you know what? If you have someone like you, Brett, who wanted to go outside and play football all the time, and I don’t think you’ll be unusual at all, having raised four boys myself. There were, there were, you know, some practice activities, especially science experiments that they were right into, you know, they were happy to do those ones and less interested to do others. We have spent a lot of time putting together work samples, assignments, that you can use. And they, they can be used, they can go across the whole term. This is the beauty of those. So if you have got a child that isn’t really into the daily practice activity. You might start one of these assignments at the beginning of the term.
[46:41] Ellen Brown: There’s one for every subject, each term that are available for you, and they are fantastic and very engaging. And they don’t have to be finished in an hour and a half an hour. And it means that they can spend time on that. So they might be working on something in in history and they might do their learn section. They might jump on to that assignment for a while and then go to their apply section and continue on that. And some students do learn best if they’ve got a major work, you know, an assignment that they’re that they’re putting together. These assignments are designed to be the kind of thing that when grandma comes over to stay and says, what have you been doing in your homeschooling?
[47:21] Ellen Brown: That they’ll pull them out because they’re really proud of them. And so they come for you as a parent with some really good, helpful information that you can go through. As for the younger grades, that’s really designed for parents to read and say, okay, this is how to do it. And then for the older grades, high school and on, it’s for the student giving them real tips on how to go about doing their assignment. And that will really give you some guidance that you need. And a really another way of being able to get that real hands on learning that we’re looking for.
[47:54] Brett Campbell: And those assignments can be used for proof of work to submit to the department, which is again, we spent a lot of time building them out and getting them there. And as I mentioned earlier, if you do have the the premium reporting product as well, service that we offer, that you can then upload the completion of those, and then they can be sent off to the department as well. So alrighty. So we’ve covered a fair bit as it relates, Ellen to the minimum viable. Right. The like what we believe is, is sort of those boundary marks. Now we’re also going to preface this by saying you could spend an hour a day or six hours a day. You can spend eight hours a day if you want to. And you could. You can go through the entire program in six weeks, if you desire, in five weeks if you desire. We do have some families and children doing that, and they just keep moving ahead. We also on the other end of the spectrum is whilst our program is built in terms, it’s really to help with the mindset of parents and families because majority of the parents have gone through a schooling system and your mind is in the the term one, two, three, four, etc. So our program is built like that.
[49:09] Brett Campbell: It’s built over an entire year period with four terms. Okay. And it doesn’t mean because New South Wales goes back to school today that your child must start term four today, or whatever the term aligns as. Right. So it is there as a baseline. Some families really find comfort in aligning it with the schooling timelines and that’s totally fine. Others have their own total timeline where they might be, especially for our travelling families. You know, we’ll have a very different schedule, right? They might have a whole week off, and then they might do two weeks and they might have a few more days off and they might. So it’s all comparative to what, the outcome that you’re trying to, to, to achieve. Right.
[49:55] Brett Campbell: But like I said, you must start with a minimum viable. So you know what the baseline is. Then you can build from there. So let’s Ellen, let’s start before we wrap this episode up. Let’s go through some more tactical. And we have done this in the past. And I just wanted to let you know, we obviously have talked about our homeschooling course for parents that we’ve created. We’ve also created parent handbooks for every single grade of Euka. So you can go and download those. You can go to our support centre and just type in Parent Handbook, and you will be able to take into a page where every grade has its very own Parent Handbook that goes through to help you understand. And it covers a whole lot of different topics as well.
[50:41] Brett Campbell: But there is a lot of resource there for you to be able to go and tackle. But for today, Ellen, let’s let’s wrap with the some of our best. You know, you’re a homeschooling parent as am I. The best tips that we’ve found when it comes to you know that getting the best out of our day, week, month, etc..
[51:02] Ellen Brown: The very best tip you already mentioned and that is look ahead, take a little bit of time to look ahead as a parent at the lessons that your child’s got ahead. And that’s not just for young ones. That’s for high school parents of high schoolers as well. It’s not so that you can be the education police for your high schooler. It’s so that you can encourage and support them and and have, you know, insight into what they’re working on. So and also making sure you got the resources. So looking ahead is a really big one. It’s the same as, you know, planning ahead. When you’ve got to cook meals for the week, you just do such a better job. If you’ve got a bit of a plan of action and you as a parent feel just a relief.
[51:43] Ellen Brown: You know, any kind of anxiety you have is usually because you just aren’t organised. So just take a few minutes. You know, even half an hour would be perfect to look ahead and see what’s your child got coming up, what resources are they going to need so that you, you know, if you need pipe cleaners, you’ve got some, that will make a huge difference in being organised. That’s the first one I’d be thinking of.
[52:06] Brett Campbell: Yeah. One for me is for a for planning the week specifically. And I’ll get a bit more tactical here. Some people like a big wall planner. You can go to Kmart or anywhere Officeworks, get a big weekly wall planner, put it up on the wall. Some people like a whiteboard. I like using a Google calendar because my entire life runs through a calendar. So we’d I’d have the lessons of what lesson we’re doing and when or our plan to, right? And know that probably even for myself. Right. And I’ll, I’ll share in full transparency when we’d set our week up. I’d say 80% of the time we would probably we would accomplish the week. A lot of the time we wouldn’t. And that’s totally fine as well. And you might be going, oh, but Brett, it’s your program and you know it and this and that. It’s like, yeah, of course. But it’s built for that flexibility. Right.
[53:01] Brett Campbell: But it was really important for me tactically have a place where you can, you know, you don’t just plan in your head, put it down onto whatever works best for you. If you need a stone tablet, use a stone tablet. Whatever framework works for you, have it. And also another tip involve your child in it. Okay? Involve your child in it so that they know what’s coming up as well. So they’re not surprised on Wednesday going, oh, what’s this. Right. Because not a lot of children. Well actually let me reframe that. Some children don’t like surprises, right? Some absolutely love it, but depending on the personality will depend on how much information you want to share. Like, you might be doing an excursion on Wednesday and you’re going to the goldmine. Maybe you don’t tell your child because it’s an exciting thing, and I hands down guarantee that gold mine trip will last a lifetime in your memory bank, right? You will never know that it was lesson three, grade, term four, you know, gold mining, like you, you just know that that that won’t be the thing.
[53:59] Brett Campbell: It’s the creating memories along the way here as well. So, that’s a it’s another one. What about you, Ellen? What have you got?
[54:07] Ellen Brown: Yeah, I like that one, especially. I think it can’t work unless your children, especially high schoolers, as I’m thinking of, They need to be very involved in putting together a plan. Get them to start by putting in the things they love to do that have got nothing to do with Euka so that they’ve got right. I’ve blocked out all the stuff that I want to do. I want to start bike riding every morning, and I want to go on hikes on this day. And I’ve got friends that you know, or that goes in there first and then they can fit things in. And then the other question I would say it’s not, it’s not telling them, okay, well, we’re going to do this work, this assignment in this week. Where would you like to put your assignments in the term.
[54:46] Ellen Brown: Like, you know, we’re going to you might say as a parent, I’d like to have and this is what I would do, I would like to have two assignments for each subject across the year. So Euka gives you four one each term. But I look at them with my high schoolers and say which ones? And we’d choose together because they want to be engaged in it. And I’d say, where will you put that? And so it’s them having a choice about where to put that. And I know that kind of sounds funny, but at the end of the day, if you don’t have buy in from them, it’s not going to be successful.
[55:17] Brett Campbell: Yeah. And another tip to compound on that is something we found very useful is you’ve got to set the day up. That’s going to give the best outcome overall. And what I mean by that is sometimes you as a parent might need to concede on you might have a specific way of doing something or a specific desire of how it’s done. I remember one time I was sitting there with my daughter. Oh, let’s go and do because I gave her an option, right? I gave her a list. We could do this practical activity or this one. And I had a bias towards the one that I would enjoy the most. Right? I’m sitting there as the parent, and then she chose the other one. I’m like, oh, but shouldn’t we? Oh, wait a minute, here I am. It’s like, it’s it’s her learning journey, right? Not mine.
[56:04] Brett Campbell: Although it is, it’s it’s learning how to be a better parent. But something that we found very helpful was stack the things that that enjoy most at the end of the day or at the end of the lesson. So get the get the subjects that may feel a little bit more painful or a little bit more, do I have to do this? It’s like, yep, that’s part of the learning. We’re going through it. But don’t worry, in a moment we’re going to be able to move to the things you enjoy. Because if you start the day with things that they enjoy, the momentum will quickly drop off. If you then send them off to something that they don’t really enjoy as much. So that’s a that’s another really helpful tip that we’ve found as well. Let’s go one more each. Ellen.
[56:45] Ellen Brown: Yeah, my last one is it’s okay to start fresh. I always like even after, you know, 20 years of homeschooling, I always will start a term or start the. And I’d be like, oh, you know, and I’d have it all set and we’d be all set up really nice, and then it would be really great. That first day is great. And everyone’s got things have finished and and we’re day four comes around and people start going, oh, you know, I didn’t really like starting at that time of day because I had three at the same time. And I would have loved everyone to do all the same thing at all at the same time. And, you know, it usually lasts about three days and then I would have to adapt. But, you know what’s exciting? There’s always another week, the start of a new week. There’s the start of a new day, the start of a new term.
[57:27] Ellen Brown: So, you know, just don’t be worried if one particular way doesn’t work. It’s not failure. It’s all about adapting. And then once they get into high school, then I would find that they would do things at different times. But they were well, well used to doing things themselves. And I had to become, like you say, Brett. I had to become more comfortable in the fact that the boys liked to do their homeschooling on their bed, and I would have preferred that they sit at a desk, but that’s how they felt. And they wanted to have AirPods in, and I would have preferred, you know, and so it’s about being comfortable to understand that we all do things differently. And it’s not failing to change isn’t failing.
[58:05] Brett Campbell: And to that point, Ellen, this is something that, you know, is probably the biggest mirror that I have up in front of me as a parent. You’ve got to watch, like how many, how much of your beliefs have come from? Well, I didn’t get to sit on the bed to do it, so why should my child, right? or I was never given this. So why should you have this? Or I had to learn it this way. And I understand in many cases. You know, for parents it’s like, well, I learnt this way and this is how I turned out. So that’s how it should work for you. But it doesn’t necessarily work like that. Yeah. A lot of the times I find myself saying something to my daughter, I’ll be declining her request and I’ll be like, wait a minute, why did I just decline that? Why did I say no to that? Like, sure, go and do it.
[58:50] Brett Campbell: It’s not like it’s not because they all come. Our beliefs come from somewhere, right? And a lot of the times they will come from what you got exposed to or experienced, you know, so that’s something very, very important to to consider and think about. But my last tip is go easy on yourself, lower your expectations. Right. Being a parent is the hardest thing I think anyone will ever experience, like being a parent is unbelievably hard, and I want to I want to go on record and make sure that I say, and everyone knows it’s like because everyone agrees it’s it’s the most hardest yet most joyful thing, the biggest dichotomy that you could even ever experience, right? It’s like you get the highest of highs and the lowest of lows, and sometimes you’re like, oh my God, am I failing as a parent? Am I doing this wrong?
[59:38] Brett Campbell: Or this is not good enough? I’m not meeting expectations. It’s like, go easy on yourself. It’s it’s hard enough as it is. And the fact that you have taken and made the decision, whether it was out of need and you’ve almost got it’s sort of a forced decision for you to have to homeschool or whether you’ve chosen to homeschool. Just know that you are already, you know, on on the top of the, on the top of the list of getting trophies and awards for going through this and experiencing it. It’s not easy, right? Like being a parent is not easy. Homeschooling is not easy, but it can become one of the most enjoyable things and in many cases, be one of the most fruitful things that you do as a family, whether it’s for a short period of time or a long period of time.
[1:00:25] Brett Campbell: Again, we all come in different shapes and sizes and beliefs and and feelings and so on and so forth. So my parting message is go easy on yourself. You’re already doing an amazing job. You’ve you’ve gotten to where you are today, and I hands down guarantee you’ll get through where you’re going right now and you’ll move into a new season. So with that said, thank you for tuning into the podcast. We really appreciate you listening. If you haven’t picked up those resources that we talked about, once again, our homeschooling course and our Parent Handbook, make sure you go and pick up those resources. You can go to our support centre and just type it in and it’ll pop up. And you can go and get that sent to your inbox immediately.
[1:01:08] Brett Campbell: So thank you very much, Ellen. Great as always. Love talking about this. Have an amazing rest of your day.
