Brett Campbell (00:01)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Future Learners. I am Brett Campbell, Chairman and CEO of Euka Future Learning and I’m joined again by my beautiful co-host, as always, the founder and head of education, Ellen Brown. Come on down. How are you, Ellen?
Ellen (00:16)
Yeah, very well, thanks, Brit.
Brett Campbell (00:19)
Awesome. So this, I say this every week, actually. This is an awesome topic because I truly believe it is. I’m going to hand you to, to let us, let us know, let it, let the audience know what are we going to be talking about today and why is it an important topic.
Ellen (00:37)
Right, well, we’re going to be talking about the parent’s role in learning to read. Learning to read is a bit of a mystery for most people. It feels like it’s hard, it feels complicated, but I’m going to work with you today, Brett, to make that seem much more achievable and just to give parents the confidence they need as they’re embarking on this journey or if they’re starting again because their child’s already started to learn to read but is having a few issues. So hopefully we can help out parents in that way today.
Brett Campbell (01:07)
So let me start by just highlighting a couple of key points to bring this reading topic to the forefront. Only 12 % of Australian 15 year olds are able to read at an advanced level. With children from poorer families, 10 times more likely to have deficient reading ability compared to more wealthier families. I mean, there’s a parallel…
as it relates to the ability to read versus wealth, which I want to tap into that because I think there’s such an easy fix for that, but we’ll get into that. And another one is a report from the Grattan Institute says Australia is in the midst of a reading crisis. A third of children cannot read at their level of expected age, which is quite concerning. But let me throw a double -edged sword on that.
Why is that concerning? Why Ellen right now in a world where I could almost talk to my phone and it can read me anything. Why is reading important? Now that can, that could be a eight part mini series, but let’s start with why, why do you believe reading is important?
Ellen (02:25)
that’s a tricky one. Well, look, basically, it’s, it’s one of the fundamental aspects of communication. So not only obviously, there’s an enjoyment of reading, but being able to communicate well with people is is absolutely essential when you want to.
live a fulfilling life. So from from reading what’s going on the specials in the supermarket, to reading a novel or reading an article, or it’s about being able to process information. And that’s, that’s a very, very valuable skill.
Brett Campbell (02:57)
Hmm. Yeah. I look at it through the lens of reading is an acquisition of knowledge, right? It’s an acquisition of knowledge. And I believe knowledge is power and power is the ability to provide. now break that down a little bit further as your ability to be able to consume information and then be able to take said information and architect your very own viewpoint on that.
so that you are then not reliant on anyone else’s viewpoint to say, follow me, do this, do that. and you become, let’s call it a slave to the, to the Pied Piper, right? so our ability to be able to, it helps us think it helps us instill and distill, topics, and I really think reading,
And there’s multiple forms of reading and we can touch in on that, but the topic of consumption of knowledge, I think there’s, there’s nothing really more important than that in many ways, because everything trickles down. There’s not a book that you can’t find right now that doesn’t have information about something like there is every single topic that you could probably think of off the top of your head. There will be not only probably a book, but an entire segment dedicated to that specific topic. because there’s.
interests out there and there’s communities out there with, you know, that apply that actual knowledge then turned into, I guess you’d say, an ability for someone else to consume and utilize said information. So I think it’s pretty fair to say that most people would if asked a question, do you think reading is important? They would say yes.
However, the question that I would always say back to that, if I got asked is reading important outside again? Yeah, of course. I don’t like to just give basic answers. So I’d take, I’d take another complex route and I’d go, is reading important? I would say, it depends on what you’re reading. Right. It really depends on what you’re reading because if I’m reading crime novels all day, every day now, nothing against crime novels. Cause I mean, those things go sell like hotcakes. I’m actually blown away by a lot of different markets.
and books that they sell and interests and so forth. Now there’s nothing wrong with that. But if that’s the only thing that you ever read, then you’re going to have a very interesting outlook on like everything that you do within your, your, your life is going to be looked through the crime novel lens of an investigator, solving a murder, right? Now it does really come back to what it is that you’re consuming. Cause I think that’s a very, very interesting starting point because I don’t know what you’re like, but I,
Love for you to tell me when you’re a kid. I didn’t enjoy reading at all. I hated it. I couldn’t stand it. I didn’t, I went through high school, didn’t read one book. I did one book assignment and it was about a horse that was going off to the meat factory. And the book was called bow down Shadrack and the horse was called Shadrack. And I can’t block. I know it because it like it imprinted in my head of going, what is this thing about? Right. And that was the only book that I skimmed across.
because I had to put an assignment through all I did was read the back of the book and read the title page. And I just made assumptions for the rest of it. some of the feedback was, this isn’t even in the book. I’m like, goodness. Okay. But the point was, is I didn’t read cause I absolutely anything that was sort of put in front of me. I just had no interest in, right. Which is a very good starting point of, yeah, there’s, there’s kids out there who just will read books, consume books at will. Now I’ve read hundreds of books.
But I’ll never sit down and read a Harry Potter book. Cause I’m like, wow, those are so big. Like, why would I like, I’m giving up 10 hours of my time to read about the wizard. I’d rather go and watch the movie. Right now again, that’s because I have a different way of consuming information and you’re going to find your children have very different ways of consuming information as well. And most likely probably different to the way that you consume information, which is going to challenge your own thought process, et cetera. but what was your.
What was your reading relationship as you were sort of growing up?
Ellen (07:25)
I’ll look like your book about the horse. My, I was interested in anything to do with horses. So if there was a book about horses, I’d read that, but I was an outdoors kind of girl. So I, no, I did not read that. No, I wrote, I read Misty, the Brumby story and things like that. But I was an outdoors girl and I, and I much preferred to choose outdoor activities to reading. But there are a couple of books that stand out in my mind that I recall as a youngster.
Brett Campbell (07:35)
this one was going off to the slaughterhouse and you wanna want to read that one that would have terrified you
Ellen (07:55)
I think the thing that parents can find certainly when their kids are starting to get to the reading stage, that feeling of, okay, I know, like I want them to be able to read and I want them to be able to confident, and I know, where do you start? That’s the kind of question that parents are having. Now, what you were saying about making sure that kids are reading things that they’re interested in, that’s certainly a good start. If you’ve…
come out of mainstream school, your child struggling with reading and you’re like, okay, we, we really want to make a change here. We don’t want to see reading as this painful experience, then start by saying, what is interesting to this child and let’s get a book about that. And that means that if you could got in their program, a certain book and your, your child’s not interested, reach out, reach out to you and say, look, my child’s not interested in that. He wants to read this and we can give you something that’s called a choose your own novel unit.
And that means that every child should be reading a book they’re interested in. That’s gotta be a core thing. So there’s two stories here. There’s the one about coming to reading at the beginning and then coming back to reading as a focus when your child’s come out of mainstream school and might be struggling in that area. So I don’t know where you wanna start, but let’s start with coming to the reading in the beginning. Cause I’m not a parent, I’ve got kids that are coming into a foundation or grade one and they’re like, you know.
When I was a teacher, one thing that I used to find really frustrating, or even now when we talk to parents, when they’ll say, my child’s in foundation or grade one and they’re failing. And I think, what? What do you mean? And it was always to do with the reading, the way kids are learning to read in school. Now that’s changed a lot over the years as fashions in reading at school and the way it’s taught. But one thing that’s always been a problem is the speed.
the speed that mainstream school will often go with learning sounds and learning sight words. And if your child’s missed a week, they were sick with a cold, all of a sudden there’s five very important sight words or 10 even. And I’m not even joking when I say often in mainstream school, they’ll be given 10 new words to learn each week, the sight words to learn each week. That’s probably where the biggest problem comes from in the start.
Brett Campbell (10:20)
Hmm.
Ellen (10:20)
But if we go right back to the beginning, and I bet you’re finding this with Ayla, you know, they’re taught ABC. And that is a totally confusing concept when it comes to learning to read because the name of the sound is different to his sound. I remember always going, you know, Mr. B or whatever, but if you look at B and your child’s learnt that’s B, and then you say, okay, let’s sound out ball. Well, you can’t send that out with that.
B sounds. So, so when you’re right at the beginning and your child’s, you know, just coming into foundation and they’ve learned ABC and that’s great, that’s their name, but what do they say? And so really when you’re learning to read, the first step of the process is learning those sounds. So when I was going through school, phonics was not something that kids were taught so much. We were, we were taught some sounds, but it was all about immersion. Like if you,
Brett Campbell (11:11)
Mm.
Ellen (11:14)
read books enough to children, they’ll just automatically learn and that’s actually not the case. And they’ve found that out now we’ve gone full circle. But you know, you need to learn those single sounds. And the big thing for big tip for parents on that is slow it down. Give the kids confidence make games out of the sounds, find them on signs and things like that. And your child probably already know ABCD because they learn that from little.
Brett Campbell (11:20)
Hmm.
Ellen (11:40)
So then say, that’s his name, what does he sound like? So choose a couple of them, maybe the ones in their own name, or maybe ones that can go together to form small words, like if you learnt, you know that you can put them together to make a sound. So it’s all about starting with those sounds when you’re starting to read, that’s an important one.
Brett Campbell (12:01)
Yeah, you mentioned Ayla. And this sort of is the pre actually even getting in reading. So I would in class what we do is reading right now again, Ayla’s three, but she now can actually sit through a handful of books through the very end. I used to get to a point where, you know, I’m reading parts of it when I’m making up the words, cause I’m just reading what I think off the pictures so she can connect with the picture.
But now she’s like, no, read the words. Like she knows that I’m making up the words. So there’s the connection to it, but there’s lots of pre things that you can do before you’re expecting your child to even sit down and read. And to your point is we would probably play at least half an hour a day. I’d be playing I spy with her, right. and we’ll be doing that generally. And this, this is a really cool, thing that, that I like to do.
because I’ve, I’d say I’ve got quite a busy life and I’ve got lots of responsibilities like we all do, but, you know, you might be going where can I, you know, I mean, I work for the majority of the day and night and, and morning. And, but I also have that time where I’ve carved out to spend with my family and I, and Ayla especially in her development and you know, we, we have it stack meaning. So we’ll have a spa every day, circa 5pm, just before she has dinner.
And in the spa, we will be playing I spy, we’ll be playing letters, we’ll be, we’ll be learning and having fun whilst we’re doing it, right? Sets and reps, repetition, and any parent can do the sets and reps. You just have to want to do the sets and reps and you just have to want to do it because you know, the input and output of that is going to create an outcome where your child.
is already equipped with she, she knows at least six different things for every single letter in the alphabet. Right now. I’m not saying this to try and go, my daughter is so amazing. Although I think she absolutely is. It’s just because we’ve put in so much time and effort anytime we’re in the car, let’s play I spy let’s play like, and it’s an opportunity just to embed and be it in bed. So that when we get to the point where, she wants to potentially read books or she may not, we’ll be making sure that we’re putting the right.
books in front of it, one of our previous episodes, you know, we, we spoke about, a child could know her, right. And, his mother brought him out of school in time schooling. and realized that his reading level was very, very low compared to where it was, where it, you know, I guess you would say the standard level would be. and just by finding a topic of what he really liked to read, he just couldn’t, he became a voracious reader. Right. Just.
eating, like going through every book they could get on the specific topic that he was interested in. And that’s a beautiful place to start. Whether your child is four, five, six, 10, 18 years old, or you’re 35, 45 years old and you’re, I’m not much of a reader. It’s just because you haven’t found something that has captured you yet. You know, when I said I went through high school and didn’t read a book and I, I had a relationship where I was like, I hate books, books is that’s horrible. And I seen this one book as I was flying over to Australia.
at the airport and it was called the E myth, right? And it was the first ever sort of book that was the first book that I ever bought. And I sat down and I, I read it when I landed. so we, I landed in, in Australia. I hopped on, I bought that book when I landed, cause I was on about an hour and a half train ride down to Wollongong to stay with my sister. And I started reading the book and then my phone call and she’s like, where are you? I’m like,
I don’t know. I looked outside and I was like, I’m at this place. She goes, that’s like 45 minutes past the stop. I’m like, what? I was like, no, because I was so engrossed in this book that I just couldn’t put it down and I lost track of time. Right. And that to me was a realization of, maybe I am a reader. I just haven’t found the topics or books that I am going to be absolutely.
you know, infatuated with, and that just put me on a path of, okay, now I know the type of books that I really want to read. you know, so it was, it really is a great starting spot is looking and choosing the right books. and again, you might go, well, books are expensive, this and that, like they can be expensive. but the other, the other parameter as well is if you look at it and you get any value out of a $20 book,
or even a $15 book. I mean, you buy them on Amazon for $10 sign up to Amazon private for like $6 a month free delivery or like there’s ways around this, right? You got to look at it as an investment into your future self. That’s really what, how I view books. very, very important. So what, what’s your, what’s your thinking around the consumption of reading Ellen? So we’re talking about, you know, reading itself. yeah, 15 years ago, we never had the problem of a Kindle or an iPhone or.
You know, a readers, it was literally, you got the hard copy book and that was it. But now there’s, you know, multiple different ways. There’s even audio books now, right? There’s some audio books that I really like and I can listen to via audio. There’s some that I can’t cause I can lose concentration. So there’s so many different modalities. What sort of, thinking do you have for any parents where they’re like, well, what options should I choose?
Ellen (17:35)
look, that’s going to come down to the child, you know, there’s some kids that will absolutely take on in what they’re learning better visually. And then there’s others that will, that audio book will work perfectly for them. And so there’s not one right way and there’s not one that’s better than the other. Once you’ve actually learned to read and you’ve got that under your belt, well, that’s a skill that you’ll have for life. But then choosing how you best taking information that’s going to be part of your learning style, which we’ve done on another podcast.
And I think that’s important that parents realize that if a child’s listening to an audio book, and certainly the young people these days, they multitask. They actually, a lot of adults and young people do better listening to a story and doing something with their hands, whether they’re drawing or doing something, and they’ll take it in better that way. I know I do real well when I’m driving and listening to an audio book. I take it in a lot that way. So it’s about saying to yourself, there’s no…
Brett Campbell (18:32)
Watch out for Alan on the road, everyone. I’m kidding.
Ellen (18:35)
No, no, I concentrate. But it’s really, it’s important to recognise that there isn’t one right way. So allow kids to say, well, this is how I’m really enjoying to listen to the book, or read the book, or doing it that way is really important as well.
Brett Campbell (18:52)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, the beauty of these different options is it’s not a one size fits all. And as I generally always…
Ellen (19:02)
I just wanted to do. sorry, Brett, I just wanted to tap on something that you had said that you did with Aila. So what you did is actually you you’ve combined those first two steps of reading naturally. You’ve talked about the letter names and the sounds because you said she can say a couple of words that begin with the sound of the letter. So the letter B, she can say, ball and. Yeah, which is fantastic, though, because.
Brett Campbell (19:05)
You go.
At least six, we’re up to at least six, Ellen. I just want to make sure that the stats are out there. No, I’m kidding.
Ellen (19:30)
That’s fantastic because she’s learning, yes they have a name and they have a sound. And then from their parents will learn, help their kids learn sight words. They’re the kind of words that you’re common ones. I think there’s a top 200 list that we use in our reading program and they’re the ones that are most common in reading for children. And so those sight words are important because you don’t want to try and learn to read by sounding out every word on the page. You want to know what and looks like or I.
Brett Campbell (19:35)
Yeah.
Ellen (19:57)
or those common words are important to actually know. But the other thing that you mentioned that you’re naturally doing is shared reading. That is actually the fourth, I guess, pinnacle. So you’ve done the sounds, you’ve done the names, you’ve done the sight words, and then it’s shared reading. And there’s nothing more important. I still love listening to audio books when I was a kid. I loved when the teacher would read us a story at the end of the day.
I just love the opportunity of listening and being read to. But if you’ve got a little one and you’re going along the page and you’re pointing to the words, because she knows the story, she knows when your words are wrong, as you’re reading and you’re pointing to the word, she’s starting to get, we start on the left, we move across the page. Each one of those things on there is a word that’s now connecting. So it’s not, it’s something that just can come so naturally if you’re having the, putting the time in with your little ones.
Brett Campbell (20:53)
And I’ll, I’ll also often put in the wrong word to see if she’s paying attention. All right. Make sure she’s not slipping on the job. And it’s, it’s hilarious because they’ll pull you up. She went, no, that’s not a daddy. You know, or I’ll go before I spy my little eye something, beginning with B and, well, so she’ll say that. So it’ll be her turn.
Ellen (20:59)
Yes, yes, no, absolutely. So.
Mmm.
Brett Campbell (21:22)
And I’ll say a word that doesn’t start with B on purpose, a word that I know she knows. And I’m like, trees. And she’s like, no, it starts with B, but, but, but, you know, like, so you’ve got to, and again, and I, and I share this because I am very intentional with the learning and development. because I understand this, the time and effort and energy that we could put in at this early age, the leapfrogging advantage that it will give them.
Ellen (21:32)
Perfect, yeah.
Brett Campbell (21:51)
when they are older. Because again, let’s think about it. If you’re a child and you’re in school and everyone else is reading and you’re not, it’s gonna be hard for that child to, one, feel like they’re part of the group. They’re like, maybe I’m not, and they might be recluse and they don’t become the person that we know that they can absolutely be and should be, right? And so,
It, I know every single episode we talk about this, I keep going back to this because I think this is the responsibility that we all have as parents is we need to put in the time, effort and energy required to, to make sure we’re setting our children up for success, right? Absolutely setting them up for success. And it’s to your point at the start of this about reading, reading then helps you with the ability to, expand your vocabulary, which.
Yeah. It puts you into another realm of, of education and knowledge and understanding. And when you’re communicating and let’s say you’re listening to someone and they say a word that you don’t really know, you’re like, they know something I don’t know. And it has signs of intelligence and lots of other things. So there’s lots of, byproducts that come off the back of learning and understanding. And, you know, for me, once I truly had that, and this was only in the last, probably.
15 years. So, you know, I was already an adult, as I was, when barking on, on this sort of new found infatuation of words and meanings and you, I’d listened to it. I’d literally listened to complex podcasts just cause I knew that I’m going to have to stop the podcast probably 20 times and go, what’s that word? I’ve never heard that word before, you know, and then to your point, when you said they have to learn 10 words a week, I’m like, goodness, that’s.
I mean, in the early days, you can have a bit more consumption, but there’s no way I could do 10. Well, that’s not true. I mean, I don’t have a desire to have to learn 10 new words right now, but it’s hard to learn words because then you have to, you might like learning. Okay. What does that word mean? And you’ve got the definition. And then next week, you’re like, I forgot what that word was again, because you haven’t been able to apply it or use it. So it’s that ability of.
Whenever I learn a new word, I’m going to look for every opportunity that I possibly can to infuse that word into it. It was hilarious. Sometimes I’d be trying to learn, I’d be trying to learn complex words and I’d find a car. I think I could slip the word in here and it just didn’t fit. It was like every other word was sort of real plain English. And then I’m like, bang, with this really sophisticated word that is like, you could tell I just learned it. I’m trying to use it. but Hey, that’s part of the learning journey, right?
Ellen (24:14)
Yeah, and look, I…
Yeah. Yeah. And look, I can’t help I have to mention one of the things that I love about what we do is that when we finish with spelling, which usually finishes about grade six or grade seven, you know, mainstream school, what we do then is switch straight over to vocabulary. So right up to year 10, our kids are learning 10 new words that are words that
just bring your communication to a new level because instead of just saying something’s big, you know, you’ve got all these other words that you can use to describe something. So it’s, you know, raising the level of your communication and, and that’s obviously important. One thing I just, I did want to say is, you know,
There does come a time where your child may have come out of mainstream school, you’ve started homeschooling, you might have reached out to you and said, look, can I have a lower level of English? Can we go right back to the beginning? All those kinds of things, which we obviously can do. But there are some children who will have difficulty because they may have dyslexia. So that’s a reality. It’s got nothing to do with your IQ and it doesn’t affect the fact that they’re brilliant at other things.
but they’re having trouble with the decoding experiences and you may need support. So, you know, I think as a parent understanding that that does happen. Some kids do have dyslexia and people say, what’s the best way of doing that? Well, having an expert help you and a tutor to help work with you even as a parent so you know how best to work with your child. That’s important. And to get a diagnosis of dyslexia would be something like visiting a GP who put you onto a psychologist.
I’ll do a few tests with your child and work with you to help out what’s going wrong there because you can’t even imagine, you know, as a person who doesn’t have dyslexia, I don’t know what it would be like to be looking at a word and just not being able to work out whether that’s a B or a D or, you know, why it’s all jumbled up and, you know, it must be a really complicated and a difficult situation to cope with. So, you know, be encouraged though, because even though you can’t
cure dyslexia, there’s certainly some really great work that’s been done in that area that can help parents and help kids to absolutely fly past that challenge in their life. So that’s a good thing to know too.
Brett Campbell (26:56)
Yeah, absolutely. so, but before we wrap this episode up, a couple of other tips that I’ll sort of throw out as it relates to reading, is if you pick up a book or your child picks up a book and you, you know, give it, give it half a dozen pages, right? Give it half a dozen pages. My, my words of encouragement would be read the back of the book. Right. Again, this depends on the type of book too. If you’re, if you’re, you know, some sort of story or novel, that’s a different.
situation because it’s, it’s the longevity of the story that you’re looking for, but give the book a little bit of a red hot go. Give it, you know, 10 for 10 pages. And if you don’t like it, don’t read it. Don’t force yourself. Like, so for too many years I would buy books and because I bought it, I put this pressure on myself that, well, I’ve got to, I’ve got to read the entire thing. It was like when we’d go to the movie store and this is video easy blockbuster back, back in those days where you’d.
you’d have a weekly hire or an overnight hire that you’re going, you know, buy your movie from. And, you know, I’d get to choose one weekly and one overnight. And I’d buy the weekly and generally the weekly movies were like C grade at best. And I’d start watching and I’m like, my goodness, this is the worst movie ever. But I watched its entirety. Cause I’m like, I felt like I had to do it just to get the value of what we spent to, to watch it. Right. Which.
Yeah, it’s absolutely, absolutely not what I would deem as, as a great exercise because I had to put myself through pain and watching it and then being frustrated that I selected the wrong movie and that, but same thing with a book. And this was something for myself. And again, as parents, you can check in on your own belief around this, but if we’re creating beliefs and ways of operating where it’s like, I got this book, you’re going to read the entire thing. Then we’re going to create a bad relationship with reading.
What we’re trying to do is we want to try and create good relationships with readings, just like food. If someone really doesn’t like their food, do not force them to eat the food. Like it’s, you’re creating a bad relationship with food, which leads to multiple different other, situations that, that can end, you know, not so great. same thing with anything you force someone to do something they truly don’t like when there are other options to, to pursue and put it down, get another book. Maybe it was just a bad book. You know, I’ve got.
hundreds of books literally hundreds and probably about seven eight hundred books on my phone and Kindle and I haven’t even read a quarter of them, right But that’s okay because I’ll read a little bit. Okay. Yeah, this book isn’t worth my six seven eight hours that I’m gonna put put into it One one last story I’ll share with you Alan because you get to see these every day when we’re on the video if you’re on YouTube you’ll be able to see it
is, and this is all about perspective, right? These books that are sitting behind me on the shelf here, they’re actually the Britannica group, world’s greatest book collection. As a kid, I’d walk past this every single day and the encyclopedia cabinet. And I was just like, what are the, what are those books? And I’d open them. I’m like, my God, the writing’s so little. There’s like 700 pages for each book. And I was like, who’s Socrates? Who’s, who’s Montaigne? Who’s, you know,
X, Y, Z, name the world’s greatest philosophers now. And it got to a point where I, I was, someone was in an event and they’re going, my, my favorite book collection is the world’s greatest book collection. I was like, they look like the ones that I’ve been walking past for the first 17 years of my life and never paid attention to them. And I hopped on the phone straight away. I said to myself that I said, can I please have that book collection? Right. And I was infatuated with it because I’m like, these are.
But it was cause I was at a time in my life where those books now started to have some meaning. And that is going to happen for all of your children and yourself. You’re going to go through interests. You’re going to go through progressions in life where a book about XYZ is perfect. And it’s exactly what you need. Maybe 50 Shades of Grey is the book that you need to read right now because of the time in your life where you’re at. And maybe it’s not right. But the point there is find the, find the, the passion for reading by sharing.
and setting your children up for success by letting them know that, hey, reading is just a mechanism to an outcome of X, Y, Z. This is the opportunity and what could lay in front of you if you embark on the skill of reading, because that’s all it is. It’s a skill of reading. Pursue this and it can help open up these doors. Paint the picture where reading becomes a mechanism where someone wants to do it. Any final thoughts, Alan?
Ellen (31:42)
Alright, yes, hot tip, go and visit the library, it’ll blow your mind. They’ve got audio books, they’ve got videos, they’ve got movies that everything that you could want is there. There isn’t a child that won’t love a book if you’ve got the right book. So that’s my hot tip.
Brett Campbell (31:58)
Yeah. Another hot tip, just go to YouTube, type in the book and then go dash audio book. And there’s probably a very, very, very high probability that book is already there and you can watch it for free. all right. With that being said, thank you for tuning into this episode. Hopefully it’s brought some value to you. Alan, I love talking about these things. It gets me excited. It makes me want to go and read a book actually. so with that said, thank you so much and we will see you in the next episode.
Ciao.
